I'd like to know if there are any books available on rebuilding Muncies. Also, I've heard of aftermarket M-22 gearsets. Anybody know if this is true, who makes them and their quality?

Thanks
Dino

We sell a book called "Setting Standards". It is currently being reprinted and has picture by picture rebuilding of the Muncie as well as T-10 and other neat gearbox stuff in it. We also have a video that works with the book and CD-ROM. This video will be available by Early June with the book. Estimated price will be $29.95.

Thanks Paul, I am interested in this since I plan on tearing down a M-21 which I just purchased. I will check back with you mid June. Did I understand you correctly that the book, video and CDRom will all come in a package for ~ $29.95 ?

Have a M-20 in my 66 Nova ss. Having pretty bad vibrations once above 70mph in 3rd and 4th. Pulled my driveshaft to have balanced and noticed my driveshaft yolk was chewed up . The bushing has to be history as well. My question is how long is should the Yolk shaft be?? Mine is 3 1/2 inches but it will only go in the tail shaft of the transmission 2 3/4. any help ?

The proper way to measure a driveshaft correctly is put the yoke in until it bottoms out and pull it back 3/4 of an inch. Measure the length of the U Joint centerlines and have a shaft made with that length. If the yoke is too short to accomodate this correctly and the problem your having is typical of this.. try a new Spicer Yoke Part# 2-3-6081X available from any Dana/Spicer Dealer.

I HAVE A MUNCIE 77MM HD 3SPD TRANNY, I NEED TO KNOW IF ANYONE MAKES A FLOOR SHIFTER KIT FOR A 4X4. THE TRANNY IS IN AN 87 S-10 BLAZER BODY MOUNTED TO THE FULLSIZE 72 BLAZER FRAME AND I DONT WANT TO CHANGE TRANNIES AT THIS TIME. I HAVE A MUNCIE 465M THAT I WILL USE LATER. ANY INFO WOULD BE GREAT.

I have a M22 that I purchased to replace a 3 speed Muncie in a 66 Chevelle. The problem I'm having is finding a shifter and linkage kit. The kits I've found are all for the newer 5, 6 speeds. Are new shifter and linkage kits still available for Muncies (i.e. Hurst). If so, where can I find them?

I HAVE A MUNCIE 465M 4 SPD AND I NEED A TAILSHAFT FOR IT. IT CAME OUT OF A FWD CHEVY AND I AM PUTTING IT IN A 2WD S-10 BLAZER,WHERE MIGHT I GET ONE?? THANKS

For YUPPY:Muncie 465 transmissions have different mainshafts for the 4X4 and 2WD. You cannot just switch the tails. Youi need to switch the mainshaft, tail and yoke.

On Shifters and Linkages: Hurst makes the shifters for the 1966 Chevelle as well as Muncie 3 Speeds. You can visit your local Speed Shop or call Summit racing or JEGS (Mail order performance catalog companies) The 3 speed shifters are part of the Hurst "Indy" line and the 4 speed shifters are the "competition plus" series. Both still popular and available.

Has anyone heard of a Muncie M24? There is one advertised in the paper and the owner says he was told (by someone that knows these trannies, I presume) that it was a M24. I've never come across this before. Thanks.

Info on M24: Muncie 4 speeds were RPO numbers M20, M21, and M22. It just so happens that the RPO number starts with the letter M and is a mere coincident. The M RPO is usually a transmission code just as the G codes are usually rear axle ratios: An M24 is probably an Automatic transmission. You can still have M21 options in years Muncie 4 speeds were not in cars since the M21 option is a "close ratio 4 speed". The M21 option say in 1978 may be a Super T-10 with a 2.42 1st gear in a Camaro or Firebird.

I HAVE A MUNCIE 4 SPEED CAST # 3885010 WITH A VIN # P7H26 (1967 OCT. 26) AT THIS TIME IT IS IN MY 1968 CAMARO. THERE IS A THIRD # 3088336 THAT IM NOT SURE WHAT IT MEANS AND DON'T KNOW IF ITS A M20,M21 OR M22. CAN ANYONE HELP ME?

Casting numbers on Muncie 4 speeds have nothing to do with what ratio they are. Casting numbers are merely part numbers of those particular cast parts. Ratios on 1967 transmissions can only be identified by looking at the rings on the input shaft spline from the outside. Read more about this at www.5speeds.com/muncie.htm

I am rebuilding a M21 using the guts from an Oldsmobile unit and the aluminum castings form a Pontiac (this is going into a 69 GTO). The spedometer drive gear from the Olds does not engage the driven gear from the Pontiac. Can new gears be purchased? Any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

For Kevin's speedo problem.... and for everybody. Please ask questions more specific. How does the gear not engage? Is it in a different place? Is it to small? Too Large?

Paul and others, I apologize for the lack of specific information. So here goes. . . After pressing the drive gear (from the Olds) onto the mainshaft, I assembled the tail section (from the Pontiac) onto the rear bearing retainer and slid the driven gear and housing (from the Pontiac) into the proper bore. Using a flashlight looking from the end of the tail section to the speedometer gears, there is approximately 1/10" clearance between the outer diameter of the gears. I tried this also with the tail section from the Olds with the same result. The Pontiac driven gear is .713 OD and the Olds drive gear is 1.766 OD.
Also the position of the drive gear on the mainshaft is different for the Pontiac and Olds. The Pontiac is positioned approximately 3/4" more toward the main drive gear.
Another problem is that Olds positions the driven gear on the pasenger side of the tail section facing downward approximately 30 degrees from horizontal. The Pontiac driven gear is positioned on the drivers side horizontally. Using the Olds drive gear with the Pontiac tail section provides a driven gear rotation opposite of the Olds tail section.
I called my local Pontiac dealership and they did have a 19 tooth driven gear in stock, part number 3987919. But they said that the drive gear, part number 1307494, was discontinued July 1989.
I believe I have two choices, either locate a Pontiac drive gear (which I believe has a larger OD than the Olds) or locate an Olds driven gear (larger OD than the Pontiac) and use the Olds tail section. I would prefer using the Pontiac tail section.
I hope I have explained myself clearly. Again, I would appreciate any help. Thanks alot!

my message was posted, anyway- WHEN WILL THE CD OR BOOK BE AVIABLE, I already bought the kit from you.

I know this is probably a stupid question, but is it possible to convert a M20 or M21 to a M22? I have no knowledge of these type things and would appreciate an answer.

To Jj: Yes it's possible to convert to an M22 from a M20 or M21. You will need to get 1st,2nd,3rd, input, cluster and forward reverse idler gears to make the swap. This is an expensive conversion. If you had new gears you'd spend upwards of $1000 dollars.

I have recently aquired a 3 spd Muncie for a stock car application. There is a 5th mounting tap on the very top. Also, the input shaft collar at the base is a larger diameter than the stock Saginaw i am replacing. The Muncie does not mate to the bell housing. What have i got here and what is the correct fix? Also, did Muncie ever build aluminum cases? I have a Muncie looking 4 spd that is cased in aluminum. The light weight is attractive for racing purposes. Can anyone help ID this item for me. Thanks

Have M21 in my 66 Nova SS and under full power and a quick shift between 2nd & 3rd it has gotten jammed in 2 nd. I have to crawl under the car and re-align the linkage. It appears to be lined up . There was an article in a recent Hot Rod or Super Chevy Magazine regarding this similiar problem from a factory 66 during testing, yes back in 66'. What causes this ? I have heard it is a safety mechanism so you won't gring the gears, however it seams to happen only when you are "beating" on the car and do not get a clean clutch disengagement under power. Thanx... V..

This is to confirm a message from another Brian on May 28th regarding a short driveshaft. Had the exact same Vibration problem in 3rd & 4th above 70mph. I also pulled the driveshaft to have it balanced and found the yolk and tail bushing wallered out. A new lengthed driveshaft and a $ 4.00 bushing & seal corrected the problem. I suggest replacing the bushing & yolk anytime you suspect vibration at high speeds. It did not take long to get bad harmonics with the driveshaft that was too short.

To Brian with the 66 Nova: The side cover of the transmission has a lock out so that it cannot access two forward gears at once. Alot of times under hard acceleration the transmission will wind up ( especially if your mounts are in poor shape) and cause the rods to hit the tunnel and move around. Sounds like you have a mount and shifter problem. I'd get a new Hurst shifter. You can check the sissors in the side cover to make sure they are not worn.

Paul,Appreciate the advice on the mounts. I plan on checking the mounts and sissors this weekend. It makes sense.. Its my first 4 speed project and the linkage can be confusing if not correct. Thanx again .V...

I have a m20 that is making a loud whining sound in 2nd and 3rd gears only.It started with no warning.have you got a clue as to what may be wrong with this
Thanks Jay

I have an M20 in a 1967 Firebird. I am in the middle of replacing the clutch and suspect that the tranny is leaking (the bell housing was caked with sludge). A local shop told me to remove the front bearing retainer and check the nut for nicks or other marks that may cause it to leak. Upon removal, I don't see any marks, but could it simply be worn? How can I tell? Also, how much end play should there be in the input shaft (with the retainer plate removed)? Any suggestions are appreciated... I don't want to ruin my new clutch!

To Chris Italiano: common areas of leakage are the front retainer bolts and where the countershaft presses into the case. Always use a gasket when replacing the retainer, and use sealant on the bolts.Check that the nut's tapered side is forward. Don't be concerned with shaft movement since it is normal. Put selant on the outside of the countershaft so that it creates a seal when presses against the bell.

To date, I have not had anyone be able tell me what the "E" in the following Muncie build date code means -- P9M29 E (VIN for reference is 10N63765). Ratio code is not A, B, or C but appears to be "E".

Another question; The '69 Camaro model year was extended into January of 1970... How should the Vin and trans date codes appear on the '69 1/2 year model??

Thanks, Wayne D. Guinn,
Author, Camaro Untold Secrets
www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com

Thanks for the advice, Paul. I don't quite understand what you mean when you say, "Check that the nut's tapered side is forward." If you are speaking of the retainer nut, it is flanged... Should the flange be against the bearing?

To Chris Italiano: A front nut has one side that has a taper that fits into the taper of the bearing retainer. The other side has a flat edge. Look at the picture on the page http://www.5speeds.com/kit.htm. The wrench pictured at the bottom is for that nut. The tapered side is facing down. Some people don't understand that this is really called a "gland nut". The tapered portion fits into the retainer creating a hydrostatic seal. The reverse left hand thread acts as a pump and moves oil away from the retainer. If the nut is on backwards or someone decides to add an air vent to the case it will leak oil.

my m20 makes a low pitch whinning sound which is quite noticable in neutral with the clutch pedal released. When the clutch pedal is depressed the noise goes away. I don't really notice it while driving. Is the noise a throw out bearing or the input shaft pinion gear? If it is the gear can the input shaft be removed through the front of the case or will I have to remove it through the aft end?

My m21 when decelersting in second comes out of gear after a short period of time. The faster you go the quicker it comes out. The same with fouth gear accept worse. In fourth I have to hold it in gear while decelerating. During previous disassembly I noticed what I thought to be accessive end play.
I removed extra gaskets from behind the front main bearing retainer,replaced the worn out pilot bearing and weldbuilt up the shift forks. This reduced the end play to approx. .035. This helped the problem but did not eliminate it. Could the coming out of second and fourth gear be wornout syncro units? But would it not come out of first and third also, which I have no problem with. If it's a end play problem how do I correct it? I have already tried to locate the retainer ring kits with no luck. By the way I have checked the linkage adjustments and engagement several times. I also think this transmission was put together from several other parts trannys. Any help,advice, or words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated since no one in my corner of the world knows whats going on here. THANK YOU.

By Billy Dodge on Tuesday, September 1, 1998 - 09:20 am:

I have a muncie trans with these no's. 3925656 8223 352254 GM5, can someone help identify this for me. thanks. M22, M21, ???

Popping out of second and 4th. Second and fourth are located in the same direction. So you could have a problem with the geartrain walking back when you decel.
Also buy new forks and locking sliders. Why are you welding up forks when you can purchase new ones from GM or any dealer?...part# 3831717. Most people also forget that new slider grooves that the forks fit into are .375 wide. If you have worn forks your slider grooves will not be square. New rings and keys are also necessary and I assume your clutch teeth on the gears are peachy keen.

Ihave a close ratio muncie in a 69 RS. The reacurring problem I have is taking off in first gear. Chatter is drivin me nuts. The pilot bearing was replaced as well as a new pressure plate, clutch, throughout bearing, and flywheel. Some have said it may be the bearing in the input spline. Any comments towards a resolution are taken seriously! Its linked to a 302dz

For Mike Bouche: Clutch chatter is rarely caused by a bad input shaft bearing. Remember if you are piloted correctly with a good pilot bearing as well as a good driveshaft yoke and tail bushing you cannot have chatter.
One point always over looked on F Body Cars are the frame mounts. Have someone carefully look under the car as you take off in first and observe frame movement.

By Paul Matlock on Sunday, September 13, 1998 - 10:31 pm:

I know this is the 4 speed section but mabye one of you guys can help me....I have a 1988 chevy S-10, 2.5 liter engine....w/ a 5 speed manual.....the "Haynes" manual only ID's this transmission as a "77mm". Is this a Muncie or somehting else? please help!

I am trying to identify a Muncie transmission I purchased a while back. The number on the side plate is 3851325 there is a stamped PO1212 with the "O" or zero having a small 2 inside of it. There is also the number 3831707. Any help would be appreciated.

I RECENTLY LOST A MUNCIE M21 WHILE SPEED SHIFTING INTO SECOND. FOURTH GEAR AND THE MATING GEAR ON THE COUTERSHAFT WERE DESTROYED. I NOTICED WHEN I TOOK THIS TRANSMISSION OUT, I COULD WOBBLE THE INPUT SHAFT QUITE A BIT. I'M GETTING READY TO PUT ANOTHER M21 IN THE CAR BUT I NOTICED THE INPUT SHAFT ON THIS ONE WOBBLES AS WELL. IS THIS NORMAL? HOW MUCH WOBBLE/PLAY SHOULD BE ALLOWED? I'M AFRAID THIS ONE WILL MEET THE SAME FATE AS THE OLD ONE. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED

I am just curious about the going price of a M22. I am planning to sell mine. Thanks.

immedeiate need for one or more input shafts for m-20 wide ratio,10 spline,21 tooth,large countershaft,66-70 muncie 4 speed. new or used. email Rageout@mindspring.com thanks Gary

I'm looking at purchasing an M22. The owner says it has a roller bearing 1st gear and that this is a rare part. What is the deal with this? Is it really rare? Should I still purchase it? Thanks, Nick

I have a '73 M21 (P3C13B) with a threaded opening on the bottom side of where the shaft of the 3-4 shift fork comes through the side cover. It appears to be larger than a 3/8" plug, and smaller than a 1/2" plug. I called a local Chevy dealer, and none of their diagrams show this openning. I'm not sure if there is a special purpose for this opening, or how I should plug it. By the way, the side cover casting number is 335308, the main case is 3925661, tail housing is 3978764, and the vin number is 13S478342. Any idea what this tranny came out of, and if a plug is available? Thanks for any info available.

To Griff: The threaded hole you mention is for a TCS switch. The Transmission Controlled Spark switch used to retard timing when 4th gear was pulled. I've seen these switches available in some of the Corvette Catalogs such as mid america. If you want to block the hole use a small welch plug and expoxy it place or go to home depot and purchase a 3/8 flare plug. These thread are the same and you may have to cut the plug up.

I have an M22, and I'm looking to rebuild it (one more time). Does anyone know who currently has parts for these transmissions? Also, is anyone interested in selling an M22 that I can use while I rebuild mine? Is the Hurst Competition plus still the shifter to get for this transmission, or are there other options? I will appreciate any information on this.
My third gear is rough. When I had it apart last time, I noticed where the needle bearings supported the countershaft cluster, the inner radius of the cluster was worn. I could not afford the cluster gear, and put it back together and noticed that third gear got rough under power. Would this be the cause, or is my 3rd gear set gone?

To John Petrillo: What does a rough 3rd gear mean? Please be more specific for our readers. Is it rough shifting? Rough Sounding? Rebuild kits are the same for all muncies. We can get aftermarket M22 gears but they are very expensive. If you are referring to PITTING on the inside of the countergear then the needles CANNOT pass over a pitted area that is the same length of the needle.

I currently have a M21 in my 55 chevy pickup with a built 327. This whole combonation is out of a 66 Chevelle that is starting its life as a street/strip trannie. Right now I have a 3.31 posi rear in my truck and it leaves the line about as fast as my mother would. I have also had a 4.11 rear in it but that was too low for street duty. So far I have run 15.18 @ 94.5 while shifting at 6000. What is a good compromise for the gearing? Also, will the trannie live to be powershifted at 6000? I do not powershift right now.

To Greg R: The web site below has a speed/rpm calculator based on rear end gear ratio, tire diameter, and tranny final drive ratio. It will also show comparisons of speed at a particular rpm based on most typical rear-end ratios. This may help you figure the best overall for your driving. I'm running a 3.73 posi in my '68 Chevy truck, and it seems to be a good compromise.

www.angelfire.com/fl/procrastination/rear.html

Thanks Griff. It sounds like you have done your research before. I take it that you have a good launch.
Does anyone have some experience with racing with a M21? If so, will they stand to be powershifted?

Paul:
I appreciate your response.
It is hard to explain the rough third gear of my M22, but I'll try. I'll give some background which may help you. Several years ago I had a major transmission problem out of state, and we changed the third gear set as well as other things. I didn't do the work, but when the transmission was installed, third gear didn't have the usual whine it had before, but seemed to have two whines, as if the gear meshed differently with the cluster gear. The tranny aws just fixed, not rebuilt.
Within a year, the transmission had problems again. This time I rebuilt the transmission myself. It was an expensive prospect, so I changed everything I had to, but stopped at changing the cluster due to cost. The cluster was worn on the inner diameter where the needle bearings ride. The shaft that the cluster rides on was worn also. There was no pitting on either surfaces, just worn. I changed the cluster shaft, however, as well the second gear set and the usual rebuild kit, and all bearings.
The third gear whine is still not the same as it was originally, but third gear is still rough. When I'm in third, and under power, the whole tranmission vibrates, and can be felt easily through the shifter. It shifts fine, but it is rough feeling and I don't hear anything from the tranny. My though was that the vibration was from the countershaft inner bearing surfaces being worn. I don't feel anything in first or second, but they are not near the input/output shaft split, and do not load the countershaft cluster as much, nor do they load the shaft split area as much. Now, I feel nothing at all in first or second under any power (I have a 454). Of course fourth is smooth, since it doesn't drive through the countershaft. Only third is a problem, and the others are as they always were.
So, do you guys have any ideas?
Also, do you know what kind of prices the M22 cluster gear would go for?
I have to change the clutch and this may be a good opportunity to get back in and fix the thing right.

I am rebuilding a muncie m-20....I am taking two trannys and making one..of course with a new rebuild kit...the question is..the cluster gear that is destroyed has an anti-rattle plate on the front of it...while the used cluster gear..and it is the right one...has no such plate..but does have the three holes in it where one can be rivited to it.
Is this plate avalaible???Is it necessary..I read in one manual that 66 and before clusters do not have the
plate....is this correct??
Thanks Dave Carpenter

I have a Muncie 4 speed in a car that has a 2.43 first gear. Does anyone know what cars and what years these came from? Most Munices that I have seen are either 2.54/2.52 or 2.20 and so this one with 2.43 is a bit strange. Anyone know?

Need a M20 cluster gear for an early Muncie 24 tooth.

Thanks and Have A Great Day.

Mike Crosby

To Mike Cobine: Muncie's never came with a 2.43 1st gear. You either have a Super T-10 or a Muncie outfitted with custom gears made by Doug Nash in the 1960's. Muncie's have 7 bolt side covers and T-10's have 9 bolts.

To Mike Crosby: Call S&K speed up at 516-957-9427 for that early M20 cluster. Ask for Brian.

Rattle Plate Primer: The "anti-rattle" plate on Muncie M20 countergear simply is an anti-backlash plate. It's only use is to keep gears preloaded in neutral when there is no load on them. Some engine harmonics can cause gears to rattle or buzz in neutral. I've never seen this happen on a Muncie but have in diesel applications. I remove these plates on all the Muncies we build. The rivets have a way of working loose and causing damage. That's why they are not on replacement gears.

Has anyone ever heard of a Muncie 4 spd. with a first gear ration of 6.55:1? I have an Advance Adapters catalog that lists such a tranny and I'd like to find one if they exist. Thx.

To Chris Hardwick: When you think of a Muncie you always think of just the old aluminum 4 speed in vettes, GTO, Chevelles, etc. They also had a Muncie 465 truck transmission that had a ratio like that. The new Muncie 5 speeds in trucks are actually Getrag - Muncies. Muncie is a plant they assemble transmissions at thus everything that leaves the plant is a Muncie. The RPO code such as M21 M22 M20 has nothing to do with word Muncie. The letter M is a coincidence. There are also M24, M23 codes as well that deal with automatics. So it is possible to have ordered a Chevette for example with an M20. Hope this "Muncie" trivia helps you out.

CAN ANYONE TELL MR WHAT A GOOD M-22 IS GOING FOR...
A FELLOW CAR BUFF HAS A SMALL BLOCK MATED TO A M-22 THAT HE WAS TO PUT IN A 55 CHEVY.. BOUGHT A HOUSE...SOLD THE CAR AND HAS THE TRANNY IN HIS GARAGE. HIS ASKING PRICE IS $ 400.00. I HAVE A M-21 IN MY 66 NOVA AND WONDERED WHAT THE GOING PRICES WERE FOR A 22.
ANY PRICES WOULD BE HELPFUL..

Recently bought 5 disassembled Muncie transmissions,need information pertaining to which input shafts go with which countershafts and gears.I have several 21,26,24 teeth input gears as well as different tooth count countershafts and forward and reverse gears....is there a book that supplies this info or can you supply this to me....Help need to get these transmissions reassembled.All parts are in excellent to new condition.Any info that could be provided would be much appreciated

Need to know tooth count of all gears in M20,21,22 and countershafts.Bought a lot of disasembled transmissions and would like to reassemble.If your book or cd rom has this info please e-mail me on how to purchase.Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Assembling an early M-20(small countershaft)need to know needle bearing count inside countershaft.Big( 1" )
countershaft uses 112 small needles.How many are required for small shaft?Please e-mail me at Mtrhed01@aol.com. Thank You!!

I just bought a Muncie 4 speed P7B02 which is an M-20 I thought I was buying an M-21, Can you tell me the advantage of an M-21 over the M-20. I have a 74 Nova with 350 30 over, mild cam, 4 barrell. I am not in to racing just a decent driver, should I be concerned about the M-20? Also do all the speedometers go on the right side of Muncies? the saginaw I am taking out for a bad vibratin problem is on the left side. Also How do you hook up the back up light? the saginaw has it built in and this muncie does not.

Can anyone tell me for sure that 2 rings on the input shaft of Muncie transmissions = M-20 and 1 ring =M21 I have been told the 2 rings = 2.52 gear set and 1 ring = 2.20 gear set. You can respond to this list or miltonmerryman@erols.com

Can you tell me if all speedometer ports were on the right side. Or which models had the port or fitting on the left side? you can reply to this message or miltonmerryman@erols.com Thanks

I would like to purchase your book "Setting Standards" Could you please e-mail the information as soon as possible!!!

arcaro@alltel.net

Need help identifying a Muncie 4 speed that I picked up at a swap meet. The seller said that it is an M21 from a 1970 Camaro. Is there any way to visually identify a trans as an M20, M21 or M22? The number "P9A02A" is stamped on the flange on the side of the case. The input shaft has 10 splines and 2 grooves or rings.

What is/was the usual rear end gear ratio cut off for a M20 Vs. a M21/22? I have been told that you should really have a 3.70 or lower(higher number) to justify a M21/22. Is there any "rule of thumb out there? thanks. Kai P.S. assume standard 15" tires and normal engines.

ID Muncie 4 speeds: Alot of people have been asking me to ID their Muncie 4 speeds. Before asking please read the info at www.5speeds.com/muncie.htm

ID Muncie 4 speeds: Alot of people have been asking me to ID their Muncie 4 speeds. Before asking please read the info at www.gearzzone.net/munice.htm.

To Kai Spande: Yes most M21/M22 only came with 3.70 or higher numerical rear. A simple rule of thumb is that to achieve a decent amount of acceleration in first gear without working your clutch to hard you need to achieve an overall first gear ratio of at least 8 to 1. So if you multiple 2.20 times 3.70 you have 8.14 to 1. Use a 2.52 1st times 3.31 and you have 8.3 to 1. Download our RPM calculator for more fun at www.5speeds.com/rpm.htm.

I am just beginning to really get into cars and i had a recent dispute with a "friend" of mine. I would like to know if in a 1970 chevelle, the muncie trans was cast or aluminum. I always thought that the saginaws were the aluminum and that muncies were the cast. Am I wrong? If any one can help I would appreciate it.

I recently purchased a M20 wide ratio trans and would like to know where i can get a new or good used 1st and reverse gears? Also how well will this hold up behind a healthy 400+hp big block running through a ford 9inch with 3:50 gears in a 3700# car

Confused on Muncie 4 speed. I have a '63 corvette(VIN S102802) that I am trying to figure out what Muncie I have. According to muncie2.htm this is a '64-'65, but Nolans restoration book also lists this under '63 but, the tail shaft and side cover appear to be for a '63. As you can see from the following numbers I am confused. Is this a correct muncie for a corvette, if so for what year or is this a muncie that has been pieced together from mult-muncie's to make one? Thanks in advance for any help or insight...Jack
Main case: 3851325, US Patent No 3088336, General Motors Corp.; Tail shaft: GM 3831731; Bearing Retainer: GM11 3851326; Side Cover: 3831707; Side cover tag: 870357; Stamp on machined area for side cover: P1212; Seven bolt side cover.

IF anyone can help, I am interested in a Muncie 4 speed for my 74 Nova. I live in Maryland around the Baltimore area. If you can respond to miltonmerryman@erols.com I would appreciated it. You can also reach me at 410-661-1670 or novaman@fcmail,com

Thanks! Milt(novaman)

To Jeff Schaffer:
Almost all muncies (M-20/M-21/M-22) were aluminum.

I have a 68 camaro with a m21 trans. I a problem with
4th gear popping out, especially while decelerating.
I'm running the M21 with a 2.73 rear! I feel like I'm
really hurting the car every time I leave the line.
I would really like to rebuild my tranny, if that would
be a resonable and cost effective option.
What special tools are needed to do the job?
Also, how much does an M-21 weigh? (I'm just curious
about how tough of a job it would be to drop and reinstall the tranny in my garage)

thanks guys!!
Jacob

Does anyone out there have an m21 is good working condition that they would be willing to sell?

I would like to have something to install in the car
so I can rebuild my current m21 as a spare.

One more question!

Can a 10 spline M-20 tranny replace my 10 spline M-21
as a direct bolt in?

If so, I'd love to get ahold of a good M-20.


thanks,
Jacob

We are curious to know if anyone makes / sells close ratio gears for an ally case muncie. By close I mean:1.1, 1.2,1.3 and 1.5 as the four gears with 1.5 being first gear.
The intent is to grab the right gear when the track dries out. We run a modified sedan in Australia on 3/8 to 1/4 mile clay / sand tracks.

Wanted, Muncie 4 speed. resonable in the Baltimore area. Call Milt at 410-661-1670 or 410-597-7428 or email to miltonmerryman@erols.com

I have a coarse spline M22 that needs 1st&2nd gears.It came out of a circle track car.I'm pretty sure it is a M22 cause of the c at the end of the serial #.When we took it apart we thought it was a M20 inside a M22 case but when we tried to get the case together with the "20"gears they would not mesh so I think I need the "22"gears.Any help would be greatly appreciated.

looking for a hydralic slave for my m 20 trany to put into a 73 240z not much room for clutch fork so I want to put a internal slave in it.does any one know where I can get one or modifey on out of some other car?
mervin@worldgate.com

does any one know where I can get a shifter?
mervin@worldgate.com

I have a M21 in a 69 vette, the problem I had was the nylon speedo-drive gear came loose! I've heard there was a press on metal replacement!? BUT, I can't seem to find anyone who knows where to get one! Can you HELP me??

Want a Muncie M-20 or M-21. I'm in Iowa, but will
travel reasonable distance

I have a Muncie 4-speed in a '72 Toyota LandCruiser I picked up (older conversion). I am trying to figure out which one it is, but am having trouble. I found the case casting # (3925660), indicating that it's a '68-70, but cannot find the serial number... the one that starts with a P and ends with an A,B, or C. Can somebody explain where this number is cast or stamped? Thanks!

Never mind, guys. I just didn't do a good enough job of degreasing to find my build number (passenger side rear flange for anybody else having trouble). I found I've got a M-21 built on Nov. 13, 1969.

I would like to convert my M21 into a m20. Is there anyone out there looking to do the opposite?
( convert a m20 into an m22)
If so I would like to trade my Main drive gear (input shaft) and a cluster gear for yours. I need fine tooth main drive gear (input shaft)
If interested please contact me :
Michael Miccio
email: mtmitch@worldnet.att.net

Does anyone know if the torque rating is different for the m21 versus m20? I know that the m22 has a higher rating than either the m20 or m21. Thanks, much appriciated.

I have a 1965 Muncie 4 speed, casting # 3851325 and would like to see a pictorial of the unit. Does anyone know if I can find a pictorial of what the unit looks like and how each external piece connects.
Thanks,
John

Hi I'm in need of a countershaft and 1st gear for an M21, does anyone know where I can get parts for a reasonable dollar? mike...

Greetings, I have a Muncie 4 speed with case no. 3885010 and build code P0909. The tailstock is 5" longer than any of the other Muncie 4 speeds I have and has casting no. 9779246. Could this be for 64-66 Pontiac? If so is there any call for them? Thanks,

Leon Rowell

I have an M20 that is difficult to shift from 2nd to 3rd under hard acceleration. It is smooth at light acceleration and takes a little nudge from 3rd to 4th. 3rd to 4th you can feel the gears engage a little. The shifter is a recently rebuilt 69 oem hurst. Does it sound like i needs a rebuild to you and if so can you recommend a good book to show me how. Thanks Tim

Just wondering if this message board is dead or alive. Would be nice to see some replies to the questions up there.

I have no clue. Paul Baccard has not replied to this board since January 3rd. Paul, if you see this, we know you are busy but we could use some help too.

To All: The idea of this message board was for people to interact and help each other. It is not a board to ask Paul a question and expect paul to post all reponses on the board since some of the responses are handled via email direct. If you'd like to ask Paul a tech question email him direct at support@5speeds.com. I also have been responding in other forums on this Board... Paul

To Tim: If your transmission is hard shifting in a sense that it doesn't grind but kind of blocks out the shift you probably need a complete synchro assembly. I promise to finish the new version of "Setting Standards" shortly and have decided to add a rebuilding tip section for Muncie and other gearboxes shortly. Thanks.

please send info on cd rom,book ,tape ,i am interested in purchasing the package ,please respond.thanks paul.

I need info on amc 4 speed trans.for a 1969 javelin that has a T 15 3speed what 4spd. or 5spd. will fit what is different in an amc trans. I would appreciate any info thanks

got a m22 out of stock 67 chevell ss.
dont know the #s not here.
looking for cluster gear & input shaft.
need to know price & avaleablity.
in bayarea
allso all bearings, clips, and gaskets.

can someone help

got a m22 out of stock 67 chevell ss.
dont know the #s not here.
looking for cluster gear & input shaft.
need to know price & avaleablity.
in bayarea
allso all bearings, clips, and gaskets.

can someone help

to anyone;please
identify what the first year for a alumn. muncie was released in a corvette was,thank you

Does anybody need a main drive for an early(1963-65)
M-20? It`s a 10 spline 24 teeth input. It`s NORS.
I am looking for an M-20 input, 10 spline 21 teeth(1966-70)of like kind or ????

Please call Max 3014243819

4x4 4-speeds?
would like to put a side loaded 4speed in a 4x4
chevy truck. Anyone know what kind of 4 speed and transfercase Will bolt together? Or does this have to be connected by a short drive shaft?
Also along these lines, would like to make the first 3 gears the same as a 3 speed and 4th gear higher like an over drive, to get some better gas mileage out of a 4x4.Is this possible?
...Tom

IM TRYING TO IDENTIFY MY MUNCIE, CAN ANYONE HELP?

CASTING: 3885010=1965-67
SPLINE: 10
TOOTH COUNT: 26
RINGS: 2
WITH DRAINE PLUG
P7H26= MUNCIE 1967 OCT 26

M20 DONT HAVE A TOOTH COUNT OF 26, IM CONFUSED BECAUSE A M22 DONT HAVE RINGS

hey JONSTD,

The two rings on your tranny don't always mean you have a M20. Maybe it's not a oem gear. If you have a 26 tooth count you have a M21 or M22. If the gear teeth have a 20 degree angle it's a M22. If the gear teeth have a 45 degree angle it's a M21. Drain plugs don't mean it's a M22.

Need repair parts for 3885010 muncie with .990 dia. counter shaft. especially need the shouldered pins that retain the preload sprocket to the forward gear in the counter shaft gear cluster. could you please provide source for said repair parts

I need the cast iron front main bearing retainer for my Muncie M-22, case no. 3925661. Are these available anywhere? Anyone out there have one for sale?

Hey Brian,

On that front bearing retainer you might want to call the guy that runs this sight at (561) 447-9594. If he can't get one for you Year One and Rick's First generation both sell them new for about $36.

i have a 1979 dodge motorhome with a 440 engine. what gears would i have to change in my rear end to increase my gas mileage

I recently had a rebuilt m20 put in my 1968 chevelle.It
works great,doesnt come out of gear and shifts fine.The prblem,if it is one,is that there is a rattling sound especially off throttle coasting,doesnt mater what gear.A little history.The trans was sent UPS and arrived with the input shaft poked through the crate.There is no outward sign of damage.Is this rattling normal?The sound is similar to the sound you would get if you grabbed the input shaft and quickly turned it forward and backward.Thanks for your help.

Tony,
Are you sure the noise is coming from the tranny. Does the sound change with engine speed or vehicle speed.

To Dan vick-
You want numerically lower gears than the ones you have in there already. However, it will weaken performance, something that your motorhome is already lacking in most likely. An overdrive tranny is probablly the best choice over rear gears, but it is somewhat expensive. An overdrive tranny that you might want to check out is the NP4500 tranny. It has a low gear of around 6:1 and it is overdriven, so you can put whatever rear gear in it that you want and it will still get good mileage and good performance.

Tim-
Thanks so much for helping me locate that front bearing retainer.

I'm putting my 68 Camaro back together with a fresh rebuilt M21 (with gearzone rebuild kit). While hooking up speedometer cable, I didn't like the way the plug was seated, so I pulled it back out. The plastic speedometer gear hooked on edge of port. About this time I hit my elbow and bumped plastic speedometer gear totally inside transmission. <I know, this was a particularly dumbass move>. Transmission is in car with no fluid yet. Any tips on how to get it out without removing tranny and openning it up? Can't see it, can't feel it. Have poked around with mechanical grabber to no avail. I am getting to old to wrestle with that cross member again. Looking for magic. What's downside of just letting it live there?

To Dan King,

I've seen many people just leave the gear in the tail. Most times it will just get chewed up by the gears and make a little noise then go away sometimes it actually migrates to the back of the tail and stays there

to Tim

The rattling noise comes and goes and it happens in any gear,it seems to happen most when not accellerating and is definately coming from the trans.Also above 65 mph there is another sound more pronounced that can be somewhat eliminated by putting pressure on the shifter.
Thanks for your input.

I HAVE A M22 PUT IN TO A 78 CAMARO IT'S HOOKUP TO A 402B.B. WITH 373 POS.REAR END I'AM LOOKING TO PULL THE G'S IN 1ST.GEAR. WOULD IT BE WISE TO CHANGE THE IST GEAR IN THE M22 OR TO CHANGE THE REAR END TO4.56.??? AND WHO SELL THE GEARS FOR THE M22? THANK'S FOR YOUR HELP

Well I not sure Tony. (sorry) Maybe Paul Cangialosi might have an idea that would be a little more helpful.

Randy
You won't be able to change your first gear and keep it Muncie unless you want to swap it for a m20. With a m21 all you have to do is replace the cluster gear and the main gear/input shaft to change it to a m20. this would give you a 2.52 first gear and make your rearend effectively behave like a 4.27 as compared to the m21/m22's dead 2.20 first gear on the 3.73 rearend. Of course if it's a real rockcrusher who would ever want to throw that out? Call the guy who runs this site Paul Cangialosi at (561) 447-9594 for the parts.

I purchased an M21 at a local swap meet. Took my chances. After putting it into my car I had trouble shifting into 3rd and 4th gear at high speeds and/or rpm's. If I let the car slow down it would eventually go into gear. I figured that it was the synchros. I took the tranny out and tore it apart. I have a chevy book dated 1970 that shows some characteristics of the muncie. It showed two different synchros. One with a shoulder and one without. I noticed that my 1st and 2nd gear synchros had the shoulders and my 3rd and 4th gear synchros did not. Also, I noticed that my reverse gear and one of the other gears has teeth grinded away on one side. I plan on rebuilding the transmission, so I would like to know what synchros to put in it if there is a benefit to the shoulder or not, and I would like to know where I can get some replacement gears. This is my first transmission rebuild. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

First time builder,

Don

Don
In 1966 Muncies were beefed up. One of the improvements was wide shoulder synchros. Casting numbers 3885010, 3925660 and 3925661. If yours is the later model you need the wide shoulder. The inside of the synchro should grab the gear and not slip. If your transmission is hard shifting in that it doesn't grind but kind of blocks out the shift you might need a complete synchro assembly.

I have a muncie M21 with casting #'s 3857584 I have been unable to find out what it came out of or the gear ratios. Any ideas?

The casting #3857584 is actually the number on the extension housing and was used for many years on m20,m21 and m22. You need to have the number on the main case. There is a casting number on the passenger side along with the date code and vin number. Those number will help tell what it came out of and depending on the year the gear ratio.

Tim:

These are all of the #'s on the case:

* 19A349153
* p9c26b
* 3857584GM
* 3946798

Thanks

Your Muncie was made on march 26 of 1969 and is an M21. First gear 2.2:1 second 1.64:1 third 1.28:1 and 1:1 on forth.

Tim:

With that gear ratio, what do you believe to be the best rearend ratio. I am using a 9" ford, powered by a 350. I want fast acceleration, but top end isn't that important. I am thinking somewhere around 3.70??

REPRINTED FROM ABOVE : A simple rule of thumb is that to achieve a decent amount of acceleration in first gear without working your clutch to hard you need to achieve an overall first gear ratio of at least 8 to 1. So if you multiple 2.20 times 3.70 you have 8.14 to 1. Use a 2.52 1st times 3.31 and you have 8.3 to 1. Download The RPM calculator for more fun at www.5speeds.com/rpm.htm.

I have a 1967 M20 that grinds in 2nd when speed shifted above 5500 rpm. Will changing transmission fluid to synthetic help or am I looking at a rebuild?

To RPM - Sometimes synthetics will actually create more of a problem since they lubricate so well. I suggest new synchro rings and /or check clutch disengagament.

I have a 1969 camaro it has a m21 4 spd. Recently It will not shift into reverse. I checked the linkage (hurst shifter) and it is working fine The shaft that shift is trying to move but the tranny will not go in any ideas????? Thanks.

I have an m20 P1B08A and was wondering what its approx value would be. It came out of a 71 monte with a 454. The gears look good, it seemed to work fine before it was removed from the car....thanks

Please help me decode the following on the case 3885010
under that # is the patten 3088336 on the tai 3846429
and on the plate 3884685 also found this on top of the case 122098 I tried to find this on this sight but no luck Thanks Rob in NJ

I recently purchased a Muncie 4spd and am looking for some info. The case number is 3925660, which i believe means its a M22, there are two other number that i was looking to decipher P9P10 and 3088350, any info would be great, also i am wondering if its a direct replacment for the saginaw, or are the splines different, thanks

Dave

I want to change the oil in my '69 M-20. The thing is low mileage but is tough to shift when cold. I picked up Redline MTL but when I went to drain the 30 year old fluid, I found no drain plug. OK DUH, but how DO you get the oil out without removing the entire transmission (this is supposed to be easy).

I am wondering if a Muncie 4-speed would bolt to a 235 I-6 chevy. I have a 54 3100 PKUP and need
a tranny with a highway gear, the old 3 dont cut it.
I want to keep the stock motor but change tranny.
Will this be a hard job? Any special tools other than
a clutch alignment tool? I am a soldier boy overseas
right now and would like to order parts so they will be ready when i get back. Thanx!
Also, the rearend has been changed on the truck,
came out of a nova I believe, dont have any #'s here
with me in Bosnia, sorry.
ANDY

Andy Neely: The muncie will use the same bolt pattern. You may have to do up a new crossmember.

I Have a m21 and have a problem with it getting LOCKED UP in 2nd gear. Anybody have INFORMATION as to the PROBLEM!!!

To Tony,
I have the same problem . I just took out a Richmond
T10 and put in a freshly rebuilt M21. The M21 shifts
extreamly good. My M21 is a 26 spline input , 32
spline out put, same as the Richmond . The only change
I made was fresh gearlube and a new Hurst shifter.
Everything else the same. It can rattle anytime the
mainshaft is turning.But no noise when at a rest.It
makes the most noise when coasting either in gear or
coasting in neutral.I checked to see if any chance the
linkage was somehow binding and causing reverse arm to
move but no problems there.Other than that trans works
perfectly.Any ideas you or anyone else might have
would be greatly appreiated.
Thanks, Al

casting # 3925656. Any info?

To Everyone,
I would like to take this time to say that Paul at Gearzone has helped me for over 15 years rebuilding and restoring Muncie's, T 10's and T 5 transmissions.

His expert advise was always on the money and CORRECT.

Thanks Paul for all your help over the years!

Yours,

Jody Haag (spdbmp61@aol.com)

I have a m21 I am considering putting in a 69 camaro with a 500hp 454... currently I have a race prepped th400.. I got a good deal on a m21... will it stay behind the engine

Can anyone answer a durability question concerning an m20,m21 and m22. I will be installing a new motor in my car soon that will raise my hp from 350 to 500 min and torque from 415 to 550. Will my m20 hold up if I just make a couple of passes a year at the drag strip and take it easy on the street?

I'm going to be looking at a friends M21 that makes a noise in all gears. I suspect the bearings in the input shaft (not the needle), or it could be the middle (main shaft rear). Fluid level is fine. Besides looking at the obvious for wear and tear, if it's bad will it wobble or is just checking for wear marks the only thing to go by? By the way I'm the one who supplied the M20 and M22 gear pictures to the Camaro site when I converted my M20 to an M22 and will be taking photos of the M21. Are you interested in the .jpg's when I get them scanned? Thax in advance.

Mark

I want to convert my m21 to an m20 and need to get the m20 input shaft/cluster gear. do you have one? if so how much? if not, where do you think I can get one?

For Gregg DeJarnett on Saturday, August 7, 1999 - 04:21 pm

Yes the durability is good on a Muncie. If you want the extra protection find a M22. The gears are stronger and straighter. Make sure you have at least a 4.10:1 rear or better when using the M21/M22 for launch purposes. With a M20 a 3.73:1 is plenty.

Mark

For Larry Var on Friday, July 2, 1999 - 08:57 am:

I Have a m21 and have a problem with it getting LOCKED UP in 2nd gear. Anybody have
INFORMATION as to the PROBLEM!!!

Larry perform the neutral allignment procedure on your shifter and buy a Hurst Pit pack with new nylon bushings and locking clips and replace them all.

Mark

I purcahsed a '71 big-block Corvette in 1987. I had the transmission professionally rebuilt in 1988, and the car has been in storage since. At that time it was represented to me as a M22. I am now trying to sell the transmission. "The Genuine Corvette Black Book 1953-1986" states that only two 4-speeds were available in this car, the M21 or M22 but I've been told the #'s say its a M20 from a '71 Corvette. It has a 26 spline input and a 32 output. It has two rings on the input shaft. The #'s are: Mainhousing, 3925661; the stamped #'s are 011S116683 and P1D22AE.
Any time you could take to enlighten me would be appreciated. Thanks.

Mike, the trans P1D22A
(E)? translates as a Muncie 1971 Apr 22 M20.
If the trans has a loud whine to it in 1-2 and even 3rd then the trans is a M22. If not someone swapped it out.
Or take the side cover off and look at my pics of my M20 and M22. The M22 gear angle will be close to being straight for strength and this is why it's noisy.
Hope you guys don't mind me ans a few Q?


[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1980/m20.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1980/m22.jpg[/IMG]

If the above images don't show up then go here:

[URL]http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1980/muncie.htm[/URL]

3rd gear was missing in the M22 pic because I was waiting for it to come in...Mark

test

[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1980/muncie.htm.jpg[/IMG]

my muncie 4 speed is locking up in and out of gear it will not go into third gear at all and second gear it sounds and feels like it is not all the way in gear what could be wrong please help please help

Rhino, start off by performing a neutral allignment on your shifter/levers and go for a test drive.....Mark

Hey gang,

Just want to say thanks for all of the cool info. I'm in new York, and have been a customer of Larry over at D&L Transmissions for awhile now. Larry's work is great and he's been very helpful.

I'm building up a 1966 Checker Cab and have just installed a fresh 350HP Smallblock 350, coupled to a Muncie M20. I'm futzing around with the cool gearzone RPM/Ratio calculator, and it looks like a 3:73 rear should do the trick. Anyone else had any experience with this? Keep in mind the car's kind-of heavy.

Thanks,

-Jim S.

Mark thank you for the advice I will ne surre to try it

Jim, sounds like you hit it on the nose....Mark

Tom you have 2 choices until one day you have to yank the trans then you can drill and tape a drain hole.
1. Buy yourself a gear oil syringe (auto supply store) and open the top fill plug and stick the syringe hose down the hole several times and suck out as much fluid as possible. To refill, open the top of the syringe and pour your tran syncro fluid (I use GM)into the syringe and screw top onto syringe and fill your trans up with new gear oil about 1/4" below the bottom of the threads of the fill hole. Takes about 1.5 bottles. If you put too much in then jack your car up on the drivers side and let some fluid out into a pan.

2. Place trans in 2nd gear, emerg brake on, block rear wheels, with car on front jack stands. Remove 3-4, 1-2 shift arms from the side cover. Remove your side cover bolts then side cover to drain oil into a pan and what's left at the bottom of the trans, suck it up with the syringe. Clean gasket surfaces, install new side cover gasket, reinstall bolts, and above shift arms.

Note:

Make sure the 1-2 and 3-4 shift forks (inside the side cover) line up into the syncro slider grooves.


Mark


By Tom Mackie on Wednesday, June 30, 1999 - 07:57 pm:
I want to change the oil in my '69 M-20. The thing is low mileage but is tough to shift when cold. I picked up Redline MTL but when I went to drain the 30 year old fluid, I found no drain plug. OK DUH, but how DO you get the oil out without removing the entire transmission (this is supposed to be easy).

By Tom Mackie on Wednesday, June 30, 1999 - 07:57 pm:
I want to change the oil in my '69 M-20. The thing is low mileage but is tough to shift when cold. I picked up Redline MTL but when I went to drain the 30 year old fluid, I found no drain plug. OK DUH, but how DO you get the oil out without removing the entire transmission (this is supposed to be easy).

Tom you have 2 choices until one day you have to yank the trans then you can drill and tape a drain hole.
1. Buy yourself a gear oil syringe (auto supply store) and open the top fill plug and stick the syringe hose down the hole several times and suck out as much fluid as possible. To refill, open the top of the syringe and pour your tran syncro fluid (I use GM)into the syringe and screw top onto syringe and fill your trans up with new gear oil about 1/4" below the bottom of the threads of the fill hole. Takes about 1.5 bottles. If you put too much in then jack your car up on the drivers side and let some fluid out into a pan.

2. Place trans in 2nd gear, emerg brake on, block rear wheels, with car on front jack stands. Remove 3-4, 1-2 shift arms from the side cover. Remove your side cover bolts then side cover to drain oil into a pan and what's left at the bottom of the trans, suck it up with the syringe. Clean gasket surfaces, install new side cover gasket, reinstall bolts, and above shift arms.

Note:

Make sure the 1-2 and 3-4 shift forks (inside the side cover) line up into the syncro slider grooves.


Mark


By Tom Mackie on Wednesday, June 30, 1999 - 07:57 pm:
I want to change the oil in my '69 M-20. The thing is low mileage but is tough to shift when cold. I picked up Redline MTL but when I went to drain the 30 year old fluid, I found no drain plug. OK DUH, but how DO you get the oil out without removing the entire transmission (this is supposed to be easy).

Mark! Thanks for the help. Now I have to find someone proficient with Dana 44 rear axles....

-Jim S.

Remember to check your fluid level first on problems.

still having a problem all my other dears seem to be engaging with my linkage off and using my hand I feel it slid into gear except for 3rd and 4th it just seems like I have play it doese not move much but it doese not want to lock into gear please help???

Rhino, check fluid level, if you did the neutral alignment already (see the Hurst URL below for the procedure) and can't move to 3-4 freely then I'd put the trans in 2nd gear, drain the fluid and take the side over off and see if the 3 and 4 sincro teeth and sincro slider (part where your fork rides and engages with the sincro and locks the gear in) teeth are rounded on the edges or broken off. Also check your gear teeth to see if you have any broken teeth. Put trans in neutral and turn gears with a screw driver. It seems the sincro is not engaging fully and not staying locked in with the 3-4 sincro slider. I would change the sincros. When you put the side cover back on it will be easier to install and line up the forks into the sincro sliders if the trans is in 2nd gear and naturally the 3-4 lever on the trans will be in neutral.

You can email Tom Parsons who has more experience than myself. He rebuilds them daily.
tom.parsons@worldnet.att.net

Check this site out too. http://www.mrgasket.com/hurstfaq.htm for other help.

Looking for help on the I.D. of this Muncie:
VIN# P01014 (4 appears to be stamped in)
(1963-66 vin # ?)
10 tooth input with one groove on O.D.
Casting # 3885010 (1965-67??)
no drain plug. The gear set looks to be about 45
degrees. Is this an oddball M21?? Please HELP!!

Casting: 3885010 Years: 1965 - 1967 Ratios: M20 2.52 1st , M21 2.20 1st, M22 2.20 1st

An example would be P4D23B. This equates to April 23, 1974, M21 ratio.

Month Code Chart

January Letter: A
February Letter: B
March Letter: C
April Letter: D
May Letter: E
June Letter: H
July Letter: K
August Letter: M
September Letter: P
October Letter: R
November Letter: S
December Letter: T


Ratio Code Chart

Letter: A M20 Ratio
Letter: B M21 Ratio
Letter: C M22 Ratio

Silly question of the month, Is it possible to get first and second gear installed backwords ?

Please interpret the following ID number for a Muncie 5-speed, w/overdrive:

610KDUM039475

Thank you.

Roger, This a Getrag Muncie and you can only get this info from dealer books

D-Man: No, the gold sincro that's on the gear must mess in the sincro slider. If you installed it reverse the sincro would not lock into gear. Check my pics out in the Muncie 4-spd page 3.

Mark

We have an M21 that was recently rebuilt. It has 1K
miles on it now and has started having trouble using
first gear to leave from a stop. It seems to shift
into gear fine, and when you let out on the clutch you
can hear the motor lugging under the load (as if the
clutch is engaging -- it's new too), but the car
doesn't move. Then it kinda "pops" into action
suddenly if you let it out some more.
I can leave using any of the other three gears with no
problems, which seems to rule out the clutch.
There has also always been a slight clatter when
shifting into first when coasting to a stop. I didn't
try to adjust it out. I just quit shifting into first
until it came to a complete stop.
If anyone's got any thoughts please send me some email.
I'd REALLY appreciate it!

Tom email Tom Parsons who's been rebuilding them for over 30 yrs at tom.parsons@worldnet.att.net or call him at 405-745-8383.

Mark

What is the idead rear-end gear size for an M-21. I have a stock 2.73 in my 67 Camaro now and the car has a hard time starting from a stop. The clutch is new, but the car kind of dies under the load. Thanks

Jake, with either a M21 or M22 your best bet is 4:10 or
the 3:73 would work too.

Mark

Thanks Mark, I have a GM 10 bolt posi, but I am not sure what size gear is in it. It has 41 teeth and the yoke turns about 2.75 times for every wheeel rotation which would lead me to believe it is a 2.73. But, the yoke on the rear-end in the car now only turns about 1.3 times for ever full wheel rotation. This does not make sense. I have tried every equation I can think of and nothing makes sense. Is there a way to know what size the rear-ends are? Thanks for your time.

I know this is a four speed oriented section, but I need help identifying a transmission that came out of my 69 Camaro. It is a three speed, has a seven bolt side cover, and was mated to a 6-cyl motor. Any ideas on an easy way to identify the manufacturer, and what this tranny is? Thanks for your help.

I have a broken cluster in a m22.Who can I get an original part for this tranny from. Thanks

I was wondering if I could order a front bearing retainer for a 68 m21 or m22. When I purchased this used Muncie it was already cracked. I searched through a local junkyard and had no luck. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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